In the aftermath of Congresswoman Nancy Mace pushing to ban biological men from using the women's restrooms in the Capitol, CNN host Kaitlan Collins on Tuesday and Wednesday only included critics of the South Carolina Republican who accused her of dishonestly having an ulterior motive.

On Tuesday, Collins had on a transgender Democrat state legislator from Montana, Zooey Zephyr, who already has a history of attacking Republicans over the issue, accusing them of having "blood on your hands" for making it illegal to perform sex change surgery on children. When asked by Collins how Democrats should react to Congresswoman Mace, Zephyr declared: "I think it's important to note that when Republicans are driving outrage politics -- when they're trying to fearmonger around a minority community  -- to pay attention to what they're trying to get you to look away from."

She then accused Republicans of trying to use transgenders to distract attention from former Congressman Matt Gaetz's legal problems and a possible drive to repeal ObamaCare. The CNN host concluded by lauding the "thoughtful" conversation with her liberal guest.

The next day, after House Speaker Mike Johnson announced a ban on biological men using women's restrooms in the Capitol, Collins had a panel that included liberal contributor Jamal Simmons and ex-conservative contributor S.E. Cupp as both were critical of Republicans over the bathroom issue. As Collins began by asking how the ban would be enforced, Cupp immediately trashed the new rule: "Well, you're getting to the silliness of this, and some of this is just performative."

After taking a moment to admit that Republicans have a point in opposing biological men playing on women's athletic teams, Cupp again took aim at Republicans:

We should have civil, good debates about policy. The problem is, Republicans aren't doing that. Republicans are using a very complicated and emotional issue to create a wedge and to create a punitive attack on a new member who -- as she pointed out -- doesn't want any of this. This is not why she was sent to Congress, and it's not what she wants to do and occupy her time with as a member of Congress. But that's sort of what Republicans do on these culture war issues. There could be a grain of truth or a majority of Americans with them on an issue, but they go to the cruelty to make a point instead of a policy.

Collins soon undermined Congresswoman Mace further from reading from a tweet by a former communications director accusing the South Carolina Republican of using the issue to try to get on Fox News: "Well, and, S.E. Cupp, Mace's former comms director has been criticizing her online, and she posted it once and said, 'If you think this bill is about protecting women and not simply a ploy to get on Fox News, you have been fooled.'"

Transcripts follow:

CNN's The Source

November 19, 2024

9:55 p.m. Eastern

KAITLAN COLLINS: Today, House Speaker Mike Johnson did not say what he plans to do about South Carolina Congresswoman Nancy Mace's resolution to ban transgender women from using women's restrooms on Capitol Hill.

MIKE JOHNSON, HOUSE SPEAKER: Let me be unequivocally clear. A man is a man, and a woman is a woman, and a man cannot become a woman. (editing jump) But I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity, and so we can do and believe all those things at the same time.

COLLINS: That's what he said when he was asked about a bill Mace introduced two weeks after Sarah McBride became the first transgender person elected to Congress. McBride is going to be sworn in in January, and responded, saying, quote, "Every day, Americans go to work with people who have journeys different than their own and engage with them respectfully. I hope members of Congress can muster that same kindness. My source tonight knows what it's like to the first. In 2023, Zooey Zephyr was sworn in as the first transgender representative in the state house. She was just reelected, and she joins me now. And thank you so much for being here. You know, I was looking at this resolution today, and Mace does not name McBride specifically, but she did make sure she was referencing her today, saying it was, quote, "Absolutely 100 percent because of McBride." What do you make of this? What was your response to this resolution.

STATE REP. ZOOEY ZEPHYR (D-MT): You know, I think we see from Congressman Mace "outrage politics." We see an attack on a newly elected congresswoman who's representing the same amount of people that Congresswoman Mace is representing, and they're trying to paint her in some ways as dangerous or a villain. I mean, she is just using the bathroom like any other person and like many congressional staffers have been doing in years past. 

COLLINS: And McBride responded also in that statement, you know, talking about hoping to have colleagues who were respectful and said, "We should be focused on bringing down the cost of housing, health care, and child care, not manufacturing culture wars." You know, in two weeks, when she's up on Capitol Hill being sworn in in the same hallways, how would you advise her to handle this?

ZEPHYR: You know, Congresswoman-elect McBride has the privilege of getting to represent 500,000 Delaware -- Delawareans in the halls of Congress, and I would tell her to do what she was sent there to do -- to spend every day trying to make sure that she betters the lives of her constituents. The other thing I would say is that what we see from the attacks from Congressman Mace is day one trying to target her. It's important that she recognize there is no amount of coloring within the lines that will keep someone like Congressman Mace from throwing mud at her and trying to drive outrage after outrage. So stick to your guns and represent your constituents.

COLLINS: And Mace is clearly leaning into this. I mean, I was watching her comments on Capitol Hill today when she was being asked about this. I mean, she knew like what the response would be to this resolution and pushing this. She also wants broader legislation banning transgender women from using women's bathrooms in all federal buildings and any schools that get federal funding. But on this specifically, I mean, we saw Republicans campaigning on limiting transgender rights in the 2024 race. Some of them believe that was really successful, having that culture war as they were framing it, brought to the middle. How do you think Democrats should handle this? What does that look like in politics generally?

ZEPHYR: You know, I think it's important to note that when Republicans are driving outrage politics -- when they're trying to fearmonger around a minority community  -- to pay attention to what they're trying to get you to look away from. When it comes to Congresswoman Mace targeting Sarah McBride, they're trying to get you to look away from the fact that they're hiding a report on Matt Gaetz who has been accused of sex trafficking a minor. When it comes to Trump's attacks on transgender people -- when they talk about prisoners and inmates, etc., they're trying to prime you for the idea that health care comes with an asterisk in this country. And this is especially poignant when you look at Speaker Johnson saying that the goal is to repeal the ACA. So make sure that when they target a community, you're saying, "What are they trying to get us not to look at?" And here it is them trying to figure out who they can peel off the American dream.

COLLINS: State Representative Zooey Zephyr, I always appreciate having a thoughtful conversation, so thank you very much.

(...)

CNN's The Source

November 20, 2024

9:32 p.m. Eastern

KAITLAN COLLINS: Today on Capitol Hill, House Speaker Mike Johnson banned transgender women from using women's restrooms at the Capitol. His statement announced, quote, "All single-sex facilities in the Capitol and House Office Buildings are reserved for individuals of that biological sex." This came after last night after you saw us report here, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace introduced a bill with that ban. And, of course, this is all happening two weeks after the first openly transgender person was elected to Congress. Democratic Congresswoman-elect Sarah McBride. McBride responded to House Speaker Johnson today, saying, quote, "I'm not here to fight about bathrooms. I will follow the rules as outlined by Speaker Johnson, even if I disagree with them."

I want to bring in my political sources tonight, and, S.E. Cupp, I just want to start with you because I think my first question looking into this was: How is Speaker Johnson going to even enforce something like this?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you're getting to the silliness of this, and some of this is just performative. As you know, every House member has their own personal bathroom and unisex bathrooms all over all of the buildings on Capitol Hill, so some of this is just performative. And it is unenforceable unless you're relying on staffers and members of Congress to turn each other in, which I don't think is the kind of environment you want to create. But, listen, there are real concerns among average Americans about some of these trans issues around biological men and boys playing sports against biological women and girls. That does not make them bigoted for having those concerns. There are concerns around gender reassignment surgery for children. They aren't bigots for having those concerns.

We should have civil, good debates about policy. The problem is, Republicans aren't doing that. Republicans are using a very complicated and emotional issue to create a wedge and to create a punitive attack on a new member who -- as she pointed out -- doesn't want any of this. This is not why she was sent to Congress, and it's not what she wants to do and occupy her time with as a member of Congress. But that's sort of what Republicans do on these culture war issues. There could be a grain of truth or a majority of Americans with them on an issue, but they go to the cruelty to make a point instead of a policy.

COLLINS: Yeah, Jamal, looking at McBride's response to this saying, you know, "This is not what I'm going to be focusing on -- this is not why I'm here." Of course, you know, you can't ignore how all of this started, which is from Congresswoman Mace, and, seeing what she said today, she was the one who introduced this bill and then wanted Mike Johnson to put it in the packages rule. But I want to point you to something that is still up on Mace's House website even today where she said, quote, "I strongly support LGBTQ rights and equality. No one should be discriminated against." She said, "I do believe religious liberty, the First Amendment, gay rights, and transgender equality can all coexist. She talked about her own friends who identify as LGBTQ. Now, look at that and then compare that with her Twitter feed today. And look at how much she has posted about this in just the last 24 hours alone. This is a small snapshot if you're looking through her X feed on this. And I just wonder your view of that, Jamal.

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what's happened is Donald Trump got elected President, and since Donald Trump's got elected President, we've normalized cruelty. We've normalized things that we just wouldn't do otherwise. You know, what's interesting about this, in 1990 we passed the Americans with Disabilities Act. When my former boss, Max Cleland who was in a wheel chair, got to the United States Senate in 1997, there was not an ADA-compliant bathroom. So you know what he did? He used the bathroom -- he used the women's room because the women's room in the Senate was the only one that was ADA compliant. The men's room was not ADA compliant. So the Senate was able to figure this out twentysomething years ago, and now here it is in the House we're doing it just because it's cruel. And I bet you, just like me, I'm sure you know right now in America this weekend, there will be night clubs all over America where women are tired of standing in line, and they choose to go into the men's room to go to the bathroom. Americans can figure this out. This is just something that's cruel that's being done on behalf of Nancy Mace, and she should be ashamed of herself.

COLLINS: Well, and, S.E. Cupp, Mace's former comms director has been criticizing her online, and she posted it once and said, "If you think this bill is about protecting women and not simply a ploy to get on Fox News, you have been fooled."

CUPP: Yeah, Nancy Mace really likes TV time. She likes being at the center of these. And I don't know if it's for -- to curry favor among MAGA or just because she wants attention, but she's done this before, and she's, you know, glommed onto an issue that she thinks works for her. But that's the point. This is a policy issue. And I'm not just talking about the bathroom in Congress. I'm talking about this entire issue of trans rights, and it is an issue. And it's an issue that deserves some serious attention to policy. And we should do that with compassion and understanding.

I've been in the gay rights and LGBT community as a supporter and advocate since I'm a child, and I know from experience that the way you move people on these issues of progress is not at the barrel of a gun, and it's not by yelling at them, screaming at them, telling them they're awful and bigots. That' not it. You've got to wait until people meet these people. When you meet a gay person, when you meet a trans person,  that's when the conversations sort of start to change. So, on the left, they can't force this issue on Americans who don't find some of this stuff very popular. But, on the right, they are hoping that the cruelty is going to move people on this issue, too, and that's just not how it works either. That's not -- that's not getting it.